June 13, 2010
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Predestination vs Free Will
I had a nice discussion on Predestination vs. Free Will tonight - no clear winner but my brain hurts. When the subject comes up and I'm asked my position I say "yes". I'm a little of both and I believe that Scripture supports both but leans heavily towards predestination especially in the area of Salvation. At the same time I find the idea that God would predestine people for Hell loathsome. If we are fully predestined then what is the point of missions? If we are fully predestined then to choose rightly or wrongly is chosen for us.
Does not compute.
I was arguing with a Calvinist. For those of you unfamiliar with the term, Calvinists are big on the predestination thing.
I'll ask my mother about it - she's like a walking encyclopedia of Christian theology. I know that she believes that Salvation is predestined but I don't believe she'd go so far as to say everything is predestined (as my friend did).
For me this is an important topic as I spent a little over a decade believing that God existed, Jesus was His Son, and that I had no interest in being forgiven except to save my ass. Now this is a troubling set of ideas to have because their logical conclusion is that you're not only going to hell but you've got a whole lifetime of seeing it coming.
Shiiiiiiiiit.
And so I roasted. I believed that God existed and that the Bible was true but I didn't believe I was truly repentant. I figured I was just worried about frying for an eternity - who wouldn't be!? At the same time I also didn't think I could repent whole-heartedly with the specter of damnation hovering about - it would remain "fire insurance".
Even more distressing was the Calvinist position that some are Elect and the rest are "fucked" (my words - more accurate if you ask me). What if I was fucked and just happened to win the cosmic "Screw you" of knowing it was coming and not being elected to do anything about it? Can there be a more depressing train of thought? That's the kind of thinking that makes you cross your fingers and hope the atheists are right. The "religious people are too weak to accept the truth" standpoint bothers me as giving up my faith, at that point, would have been a great comfort. If I'd been able to convince myself that God didn't exist that'd have been a great comfort to me - phew, I wasn't going to burn!
There came a point where I had no doubt that I was going to Hell. Oddly, rather than taking this as license to do whatever I wanted, I instead mourned the fact that I could never be made right with God and that ultimately nothing I did from that point on would matter because I was just going to Hell anyway.
And then I realized that's not the reaction someone who didn't give a shit about God would have. I believed, I cared, and I wanted better.
However, my questions about predestination stuck with me. Would a loving and just God predestine the larger part of mankind to Hell? The obvious answer would be "no" but I wondered if there was something I was missing or if Free Will answered that conundrum. I see holes in both sides of the argument that could probably be filled by a combination of the two.
I'll punish my brain with more of this some other morning.
Comments (6)
http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/29_lotr_fated-free.htm
this might be insightful. i haven't listened to it myself. however i get the impression that, like other mysteries of faith, it's not necessarily one or the other. it's more about how the two concepts fit together. plus the speaker uses LotR. gotta like that.
@rusty0505 - thanks. I'll check it out soon.
God is good. At the core the initial question is irrelevant. If you are pursuant of God then, it really doesn't matter if you are predestined or not. If your focus is on pursuing God, then you won't lose your salvation. Isn't it funny in a sad way when men look at the same God from two points and then destroy each other for not seeing what the other believes that they saw.
I don't tend to see predestination and free will as conflicting. But that said...if I actually did believe that God predestined people for Hell then I would not want much at all to do with him. That kind of stuff just makes me spiteful.
@TheGiantSlayer -
in your reference to the two men, i must agree with you. people look at a higher power in two different lights and will try to kill each other over it... it is sad.
I've been to Hell lots of times. I figure one is bound to get used to it, especially if one is sent to Hell for eternity.
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